I've seen some posts on the that if followed can lead people into a rather heap of legal trouble, as in jail, even if very well-intentioned.
Before we begin though a couple things:
1. What are you doing relying on legal advice from a (semi-anonymous) blog anyway? Consider this as general information only to lead for further study, and consult a lawyer for definitive use of force advice.
2. This is a basic discussion and applies to Michigan only, other states' use of force laws can and do vary, a lot. Reliance on this post alone for anything would be unwise, if not felony-grade stupid.
3. I'm not your lawyer, this post doesn't form an attorney-client relationship. If you're going to carry a firearm, find a good lawyer that understands self-defense law in your area and get to know them ahead of time before you need them.
So the scenario, as placed on the internet as an aside in a well-written bit of fiction (do go read the whole story, it's entertaining), quickly summarized:
Guy somewhere in Michigan sees people stealing stuff from his parked truck.
Guy pulls his firearm and points it at the thieves.
Thieves decide to beat a hasty retreat. All ends well.
In reality, Guy likely gets arrested, especially as the incident described takes place in Wayne County.
Guy probably gets to spend at least a minimum of a night in jail, and is charge with felonious assault and he now needs a good lawyer for damage mitigation.
This likely occurs after one of the thieves (or some other witness) calls the cops and says some crazy dude pointed a gun at them while they were near his truck. - What you don't think criminals lie? They do, a lot.
So what did our hero Guy do wrong?
In Michigan there are three reasons and only three reasons that permit the lawful use of deadly force. Protection of your property is not on the list. If not one of these three, then deadly force cannot be used:
1. Imminent threat of death;
2. Imminent threat of grievous bodily harm; or
3. imminent threat of forcible sexual penetration.
Having stuff stolen from your truck meets none of these requirements.
So, our Guy since he merely didn't display the firearm in a threatening manner, but pointed it at the thieves committed not merely brandishing, a misdemeanor, but felonious assault. Had he then shot the thieves he would be looking a some sort of homicide charge, potentially at best manslaughter for imperfect self-defense, more likely second or even first degree murder as he introduced deadly force where it wasn't warranted and thereby escalated the situation.
You can use non-lethal force to protect your property (which can be problematic in and of itself and deserves its own discussion), and you can also call the police. You cannot use deadly force nor be the first to escalate to the level of deadly force without one of the three imminents above.
Nor can you, contrary to Biden's advice, crank off a couple rounds from your shotgun if you think someone is maybe up to no good outside your house or by your truck. That's an unlawful use of lethal force as well.
Folks want to argue what Guy did is ok, after all he's saving his property which should be fine they say, after all, it's his. They also want to argue, well, what if they attack him?
But, under the scenario given they weren't attacking him at all, they were stealing his stuff without him even being present initially. As such, guess who introduced deadly force into a non-deadly force situation - yep, that Guy.
Guess who in real life would be getting charged for using deadly force wrongly? That Guy.
Don't use deadly force to protect just property. Don't be that Guy.
4 comments:
I figure that I can replace property. I know that the aftermath of killing someone, even in what is called a "good shoot" can haunt a person for years. So to kill someone for property would not be something that I would want on my conscience.
Not a lawyer, of course, but it seems like I remember from a discussion in high school that if you swing a punch at someone, it is assault, and if you strike them, it is considered battery. Is that correct, Aaron?
I also know the old saying of many decades ago that if you shoot someone on your porch, drag them inside, was just a funny joke, and not real, no matter who told you to do that, even the sheriff of your very rural county. The prosecutor would not like that.
I carry a firearm concealed, legally here in MI, and always try to be prepared in case of trouble. But I also am aware of ways to escape, if possible. I would not want to abandon others to get killed, but I am not law enforcement, and would not want to place myself into jeopardy over bad action that was mistaken, shooting someone who was innocent.
I try to remember that carrying a gun is a very huge responsibility, and not just a matter of physical training.
Contrary to what the first commenter seems to believe, shooting someone is not a joke. When I was an academy instructor, I told my students that every LEO I know, including myself, has been in a situation where it would have been legally justifiable to shoot someone, yet they chose not to, and sooner or later they (the students) would all have to make that same decision. Shooting someone is the absolute last resort, and shouldn't be taken lightly.
There are a whole bunch of "gun guys" online that are in the "Kablooie Klub" in which the club rules and by-laws are "always say you'd shoot at a bad guy for any reason".
I hope to God that they don't really mean it and doubt that they really would.
Old 1811
I'm one of the few ultra Conservative gun guys that does not like the idea of using a "Stand your ground" defense. If you are using that as a legal defense, it means you most likely shot someone that you did not have to shoot.
Even in a good shoot, bad things can happen, ask Zimmerman and Rittenhouse and a 1000 other good guys that were arrested and charged that we never have heard about. I take that decision very seriously.
Hello Aaron:
As the author of the fiction in question, I completely, 100% support your post.
The sequence was written to further develop the "character" of one of the protagonists "Heller". Perhaps his name is a clue. He is superficially pretty straight-forward but he can be unpredictable...like made-in-the-garage-nitrogycerine-on-a-hot-summer-day unpredictable.
That being said, some people do what Heller did in the story and get away with it. Not all crack-heads run to the police when they were thwarted during the commission of stealing shit. Your call. Do you want to roll the dice that you will get lucky and be one of those guys?
Depends on how much you have to lose.
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