Indianapolis Shooting A Demonstration of Red Flag Laws' Innate Flaw and Failure

The Indianapolis killer as far as we know to date was not driven by any white supremacy beliefs (much to the sadness of the progressives), but instead was apparently well known to be CCFCP*

Indeed, he was even "known to the FBI" which as Cindy at From the Caer has rightly commented, is about the most useless titles for a potential mass-killer. Apparently, "known to the FBI" means the FBI makes sure it will stay well out of your way until you commit a mass killing and then say "yep, we knew him".

Verily, this fellow and the action taken by police in response to his being CCFCP* and proclaiming he wanted to commit suicide by cop was indeed the very example of the glaring failure and obvious inherent flaw of Red Flag laws:

The Detroit News: Prosecutor: FedEx shooter didn’t have ‘red flag’ hearing

Authorities believed they had done what they needed to by seizing the pump-action shotgun from Brandon Scott Hole in March 2020, Marion County Prosecutor Ryan Mears said.

“Absolutely there needs to be some intervention and absolutely the firearm needs to be taken away. … But the risk is if we move forward with that (red flag) process and lose, we have to give that firearm back to that person,” Mears said. “That’s not something we were willing to do.”

The shotgun was never returned to Hole, police have said.

Read that one again.  He was reported to be likely to kill others and himself, the police responded by taking a firearm away and then not even holding a "Red Flag hearing" because they might have lost and had to return it.

So they did what everyone who has concerns about red flag laws has pointed out as to what can occur: They left him free to go out and purchase another firearm and commit murder, and he did.

But hey, at least they thought they did what they needed to do.

Yep, take the firearm away from the madman and leave the madman free and unsupervised to go forth and  commit mayhem - including going out and buying another gun, explosive, gasoline, what have you. 

A rather glaring and fundamental flaw in the whole process.

Now, had they taken him in under a psych hold it would have gone differently. If he was then involuntarily committed as a threat to himself or others - which sounds pretty darn likely - then after a hearing (with all that due process stuff the anti-gunners don't like, which is why they circumvent it to go with a red flag law), he would have been designated in  NICS and been unable to legally purchase a firearm. Even more importantly, he would have received treatment for his underlying psychosis of being CCFCP.* These involuntary commitment laws predate red flags and are a lot more effective.  But the police and other officials need to actually decide to use them.

But, that was too much work apparently, and the police apparently figured that just partially red flagging him instead of having him get treatment for his underlying mental instability would suffice.

It obviously did not.

Red Flag Laws don't prevent an act of mass murder, they just delay it a bit.

* CCFCP for those who don't know means Coo Coo For Cocoa Puffs.  Since we don't know the wackjob's actual diagnosis, that will have to suffice.

Morning At The NRAAM

Met up with the usual esteemed cast of characters.

Old NFO

Ambulance Driver

Daddybear

Tam

EMS Artifact

Check their pages for Indy NRAAM 2019 Goodness.

Off to walk till I drop on the convention floor.

On The Way To The NRAAM

Now heading out on the road to Indy.

Looking forward to the firearms law seminar, which I will live-blog.

I'm also looking forward to running into friends and bloggers I know while I'm there.

NRA Day 1 - Switching The View On The Convention Floor

The last booth we went to as the show was shutting down for the night was the MGM Switchview display.

I had recently bought a Switchview for my Vortex Viper PST scope and for some reasons it would not fit no matter how hard I tried following the directions. Luckily and most fortuitously I had it in my bag and asked one of the MGM people there if he knew why it wasn't working. He checked and it was for the older Vortex Viper PST with the rubber focusing knob rather than the newer metal knob which I had.

They had the proper part right there with them and without me saying anything, he switched them around and gave me the right part and gave me a quick tutorial on the best way for installing it.

That's some seriously good customer service right there.

He also showed me their newest product, the MGM Eagle Eye Switchview Universal Speedlever. The Eage Eye, instead of being metal has an adjustable polymer strap and is universal for all variable focusing scopes.

It looks like a solid product.

It also felt solid and it's a great alternative to having to buy a specific model to match your scope.

If you don't know what a Switchview does, it makes changing the magnification on your scope much faster and easier to do then wrestling with the focusing knob - you just push on the switch and the leverage it gives you lets you quickly adjust the scope to your desired magnification.

I was highly impressed with their customer service and knowledge and they make a great product. If you've got a variable-power scope you really should check them out, as they certainly stand by their stuff.

NRA Convention Day 1 Part 2 - The Seminars

The first seminar we attended was the one by Rob Pincus of Personal Defense Network titled "Defensive Shooting Skills Development".

Mr. Pincus was a dynamic speaker with a good presentation and style.

He covered a lot of information regarding defensive shooting including some good techniques for training oneself and others.

After wandering around the convention center some more, we went to the next seminar that we wanted to view by Kyle Lamb titled "Leadership In The Shadows".

For those that don't know, Mr. Lamb of Viking Tactics is the real deal - A former Delta Force operator and he's been there, done that in both Somalia and Iraq and he's a compelling speaker with many compelling stories to tell.

While this seminar was abbreviated from his standard Leadership Seminar, it was well worth attending with a lot of food for thought.

Whether you're in the military, law enforcement or business, there's a lot to be gleaned from his seminar on leadership.

Darn good seminars, and we'll be attending more tomorrow.

After Mr. Lamb's seminar, we headed back to the convention floor which will be the subject of my next post.

NRA Indy Day 1

This morning at the hotel we had breakfast with OldNFO, and with Midwest Blog Chick and Mr. B.

Then we followed Midwest Blog Chick and Mr. B. from the hotel to the convention center, taking quite a scenic route.

After an extended tour of the ring around the center of Indianapolis, we arrived at the NRA Convention:

The NRA has this convention humming and they're running a very efficient show indeed. We were in, with our floor passes issued, in mere moments by some friendly and efficient volunteers and then we went onto the convention floor.

The convention floor is huge and it seems that every name in guns is there. So we started walking down a row at random and ran into some Radoms.

An excellent display of Radom VIS 35 pistols to be exact.

There were two more of the same sized racks on display and it was a very comprehensive collection indeed, along with very descriptive narratives of the different periods in Radom VIS 35 production and the variations.

Right by the Radoms was a display of Great Westerm manufactured Single Action Army revolvers:

Olympic Arms was there with an AR to suit every color preference.

They also have a new production run of the Whitney Wolverine available for sale if you want a futurist-looking .22 pistol.

Mec Gar is also here with a nice display of a magazine for all your pistol needs:

In case traffic gets bad on the way out, there's a gun jeep.

Then we stopped by a couple booths that deserve a post all to themselves.

Good Arrival In Indy

The drive to Indianapolis, while long was relatively pleasant. Traffic was manageable and I did not scream even once after Murphy's Law took over the driving for his shift, and we arrived unscathed.

We checked in at the hotel, ran into OldNFO in the parking lot and then went looking for dinner.

For dinner we went to the Black Swan Brewpub, which had some excellent beers and burgers which hit the spot. The Irish red beer was excellent and the burger was large and tasty.

At the Pub we met up with Keads and eiaftinfo and had an excellent and far-ranging conversation with these distinguished gentlemen and had a very good evening indeed.

Looking forward to the first day of the convention.

It's Three Hundred And Ten Miles To Indianapolis, We've Got A Full Tank Of Gas, Half A Pack Of Chips, It's Daytime, And We're Wearing Sunglasses.

Hit It.

Murphy's Law and I are off on the road to Indy.

We'll hopefully see you (if you're there) at the NRA Convention. Looking forward to meeting up with blogger friends and make some new ones.

Will blog from the convention as opportunities arise.